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For Indian Students planning to do an LLM from UK
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Prashant Bezboruah
Nov 29 2008, 11:05 PMHi Navitha
After spending 3 months doing the LL.M and based on feedback I've received from a lot of people who have attended presentations by UK law firms, I'd probably agree with you that your previous work experience is not that important for the UK law firms. They are looking for people whom they can train up right from the beginning, especially in the Indian context. In fact I'm personally coming to the view that work experience in a jurisdiction outside the UK and US is a distinct disadvantage in the UK law firm scenario. In any case, in the present market scene, getting jobs for anyone is difficult, let alone the foreign students.
That said, it's always better to have work experience because you're more aware of the real world and what actually happens in practice. The other advantage is that if you have prior work experience in your own country, then you can always go back and get a job there. The LL.M will of course help in opening some doors back home, but it won't increase your salary drastically unless you also have work experience.
The UK law firms have a fixed salary structure for Training Contracts, but seriously after 5-10 years of experience, why would someone with substantial work experience in their own country take up a Training Contract?? Only someone who is desperate to stick on in the UK or has some other constraints will take up a Training Contract after 5 to 10 years of work experience in his/her own country. I certainly would never take up a Training Contract after my work experience in India. I'd rather go back to Delhi and join some law firm or maybe a MNC. If you really think about it does a Training Contract make you a specialist in any particular area of law? I personally think it doesn't because you have 6 monthly rotations in most law firms in different seats. No one becomes an expert in 6 months in a particular area of law. Did the law firms at the Law fair mention why they didn't consider previous work experience as an advantage?
As far as the LPC is concerned, I would probably not take the LPC cause it's an unnecessary expense and it's not worth doing it for me. I've already obtained my Certificate of Eligibility to take the QLTT with the old rules, so I'll probably do that and become a Solicitor of England and Wales once my LL.M finishes. I see no point in doing the LPC at this stage, but it's a good option for persons who don't have work experience or do not have substantial work experience.
Ultimately the LL.M/ LPC/ BVC/ GDL/ QLTT and the other similar exams really don't make a difference in my view. As you've said it's how well you can market yourself at the stage of the job application/ interview and subsequently how well you perform in your job. What makes a difference is how committed and motivated you are and whether you have the capability/ intellect to become a great lawyer.
Let me ask you a few questions:
1. How many of the law firms which came for the Law fair you mentioned, actually came to recruit LL.M students and not LL.B students?
2. How many of the law firms which came for the Law Fair actually had places in their summer/ winter vacation schemes for LL.M students?
Let's wait and see what happens. But I think one of these days the law firms should really be asked to reveal their figures of recruitment of LL.M students for last year, so that all the LL.M students for 2008-2009 can get an idea of how effective the LL.M really is in getting a job in UK. Based on my research over the last 6-8 months I'd say the LL.M is not a deciding factor in recruitment by UK law firms.
One other point: There is no difference in salary structure between a fresher and an experienced lawyer, as far as Training Contracts are concerned. But if the experienced person is taken on as a lateral placement and not on a Training Contract, then I'm sure their prior work experience would be considered for the salary structure.
Cheers
Prashant
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N. M.
Dec 01 2008, 05:25 PM[Edited Nov 20 2012]
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Ram Yadav
Dec 02 2008, 06:03 PMhi,
i am planning for llm in information technology and e commerce with intellectual property. would anyone please tell me the future in this area? can i repay my loan of about 15 lakhs.? i have 5 years of experience in delhi but not specialization. what should i do as i am planning to intake sep 2009.
rnyadav
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Suchita Sahal
Dec 03 2008, 10:01 AMhey will find u on facebook :)
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Dec 03 2008, 01:33 PMHi Navitha
Which firms told you that LLM students are preferred? I'm surprised to hear that because most of the firms I spoke to said that the LLM was not of special interest to them in their recruitment decisions.
I went for the King's law fair a couple of days ago and frankly most of the firms over there were not interested in LLM students. In the present market scenario, there were no job vacancies and as far as the Indian LLM students were concerned, there were not too many takers. They wanted LL.B students and the LLM was not specially relevant in their hiring decisions especially for Training Contracts.
People with experience were at a disadvantage as far as the Training Contracts were concerned. Most of the firms were looking for freshers and that too LL.B students for the Training Contracts.
Lateral placements of Indian lawyers do happen in the law firms. UK experience is not necessary for lateral placements. I personally know 4-5 people who have been taken on as laterals without even having a LLM or doing the LPC. They have been taken on the basis of their prior work experience in India. They would probably have to do the QLTT at some stage but they were hired straight from India. But this is probably because at some stage the Indian market is going to open up for the foreign law firms, so they want to hire Indian lawyers in order to train them and help them in their "India Practices". Of course in the present financial crisis, even lateral placements are not being done to the extent they were being done.
As far as the MNCs are concerned, are you talking about the India based MNCs or the UK based MNCs? From my experience, the India based MNCs don't really bother about a LLM. I know that for a fact since I've worked in 2 MNCs in India. The LLM might be useful if you already have prior work experience in India. Just because you have a LLM from a UK or US University does not mean that you will join a MNC at a senior level position. You'll still be joining at an entry level position unless you have substantial work experience in India before the LLM or after the LLM. That said a LLM might open the door for you as far as an interview call is concerned. I'm not sure how it works for the MNCs in UK though.
I agree with you about the LPC. I think people need to decide what they want to do before they spend a lot of money on the LPC or the LLM. But my advice to any fresh LL.B graduate would always be to work for law firms for the first 3-5 years of their career and then only move to a MNC.
Cheers
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Dec 03 2008, 05:03 PMhi,
prashant please advise me as i am applying for llm from uk in information technology with ecommerce and intellectual property. what is the scope of my course in india and abroad. i am planning for sep 2009 intake. what should i do by then. should i join any special field for practice or please help me . i have 5 years of experience in general matters in ncr courts.
regards
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Dec 04 2008, 02:07 AMHi Ram
Why exactly do you want to do a LLM? Until you answer that question, I won't really be able to advise you completely.
I am giving below certain general info to help you make a decision.
In the present market scenario, I would not advise anyone to do a LLM from just a job perspective. It's not the right time to do a LLM and frankly speaking the LLM really does not help you in getting a job in UK. As I've said above, it might open a few doors for you back in India but whether it is worth taking a 15 lakh loan and doing the LLM just to open a few doors is a debatable point. If you want to specialize in a particular area without really being concerned about getting a job in UK, then it's a good idea. It's definitely worth it from a personal development perspective and from an intellectual perspective.
I'd say Information Technology and IP are interesting fields and do have scope in India. Sorry but since I have not worked in those areas before, I can't give you exact figures or tell you what the market is like for IT and IP law especially in the present market scenario. But forget about getting a job/ Training Contract in UK after the LLM in the present market scenario especially since you have 5 years work experience already. The LLM will not help from that perspective.
My suggestion: if you already have 5 years work experience in India, apply to some of the law firms or to the MNCs and try and work there for some time in areas which interest you. If you get exposure to IT and IP law while you work that would be great.
You don't need a LLM to get a job in India. Seriously, you're better off working in the field of IT and IP in India than doing a LLM at this stage. Once you've worked in those areas for a couple of years and know exactly what you want to really specialize in, then you could explore the possibility of a LLM. Plus while you're working, you'll be earning, so you can save money to finance your LLM studies.
Let me know if you need more help.
Cheers
Prashant
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Dec 04 2008, 06:47 AMgreat sir, prashant!
you have exactly put the thing in the right way. But for the last 5 years i have attended varrious type of cases in many high courts and districts courts but i can not say in which field i am specialised.will you please tell me how to come with an international law firm because i passed my law from meerut university and you know better the university and their method of teaching play an effective roll to get into international law firm. please suggest me how to break through.
regards.
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Dec 05 2008, 02:17 AMHi Ram
There is no easy method by which I can advise you on how to join a international law firm. But be sure that the LLM is not the way to join a international law firm in my view.
In short there is no easy way to break into an international law firm unless you have specialized in a particular area of law and have relevant work experience (from their perspective) in a jurisdiction where they want to set up their offices or where they see a future possibility of opening up offices. Preferably in Corporate/ Finance/ IPR or in areas of law which have a high demand internationally. So just concentrate on one particular area of law and work in that for the next few years. After that apply to the international law firms and try your luck.
If you've been attending Court for the past 5 years then obviously you are a litigation lawyer and not a corporate lawyer. I doubt the international law firms would be interested in someone who is a litigation lawyer in India.
The Indian legal market is going to open up for the foreign law firms at some stage though not immediately. From that perspective, if you get some good corporate law experience in India by the time the market opens up, it may help you in the future.
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Dec 06 2008, 04:00 AMdear prashant,
heartiest thanks.
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